[RaviorStygian]

I love X6. It's got great levels, music, bosses, boss weapons, Reploid upgrades, armor parts, and a surprisingly fun farming system. Not to mention it has that special grainy charm.

But it has one of the dumbest occurrences in plot in the whole X seri-no, the entire primary Mega Man canon. It has to do with Zero. If I remember correctly, CAPCOM's explanation for how he came back was that he hid himself and repaired himself.

How is that even possible? I had no idea Zero was so good at repairing things, especially when he has only one arm. It must have been hard for him to crawl around and find body parts that look exactly like the ones he was wearing before and that were completely symmetrical. Not to mention all of the wiring that had to go into it.

X6 had a very tight schedule, but anyone could come up with a better explanation for Zero coming back. I'm not sure if it's different in the Japanese version, and if it is please tell me.

If it's the same in every region, could someone explain how this could even remotely make sense and be salvageable? I mean with every other thing that doesn't make much sense in the primary Mega Man canon being relatively easy to rationalize and make sense of, I don't see how this could.

[X-Calibur]

RaviorStygian, on 01 July 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

I love X6. It's got great levels, music, bosses, boss weapons, Reploid upgrades, armor parts, and a surprisingly fun farming system. Not to mention it has that special grainy charm.

But it has one of the dumbest occurrences in plot in the whole X seri-no, the entire primary Mega Man canon. It has to do with Zero. If I remember correctly, CAPCOM's explanation for how he came back was that he hid himself and repaired himself.

How is that even possible? I had no idea Zero was so good at repairing things, especially when he has only one arm. It must have been hard for him to crawl around and find body parts that look exactly like the ones he was wearing before and that were completely symmetrical. Not to mention all of the wiring that had to go into it.

X6 had a very tight schedule, but anyone could come up with a better explanation for Zero coming back. I'm not sure if it's different in the Japanese version, and if it is please tell me.

If it's the same in every region, could someone explain how this could even remotely make sense and be salvageable? I mean with every other thing that doesn't make much sense in the primary Mega Man canon being relatively easy to rationalize and make sense of, I don't see how this could.

http://www.mmhp.net/...s/Musing16.html

Read this hilarious edit that Miranda Paugh (operator of www.MMHP.net) wrote.

She's good when it comes to plots and plot loop-holes. You shouild visit the site and have a look around.

[CX111]

X-Calibur, on 01 July 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

http://www.mmhp.net/...s/Musing16.html

Read this hilarious edit that Miranda Paugh (operator of www.MMHP.net) wrote.

She's good when it comes to plots and plot loop-holes. You shouild visit the site and have a look around.

It was funny to read that! *sigh*

But, to be fair, there really is a good chance this is where all the people saying X and Zero are........ shows up. X6 unintentionally promotes it in a way.

[volt-kid]

Zero just said that. We can assume that it was Wily who repaired him. He just didn't want to give that information to X.

[Zednanreh]

Volt-Kid, on 01 July 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

Zero just said that. We can assume that it was Wily who repaired him. He just didn't want to give that information to X.

Wily or .... Isoc... =P

[RaviorStygian]

lol I could never picture X and Zero like that. :\ Just as really good friends.

[Phi-Zero]

Zednanreh, on 01 July 2012 - 03:07 AM, said:

Wily or .... Isoc... =P

Is it not obvious that they are the same?

(Bracing myself for fan-attacks!)

Seriously though, while i think there is room left for doubt in the case of Serges, i don't think anyone who's completed X6 with Zero all-the-way doubts that Isoc is Wily.
And if there was still any room for doubt, Isoc appears to have revived Wily's Robot Masters in the Rockman Online trailer. In fact they seem to explicitly call him 'Wily.'
I approve of the lack of subtlety! No more of that "an old man" crap like we got in X5!

Volt-Kid, on 01 July 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

Zero just said that. We can assume that it was Wily who repaired him. He just didn't want to give that information to X.

Agreed. In the Japanese version, doesn't Zero just say something along the lines of "So are you X. So are you," when asked how he repaired himself?
If that is the case, it really sounds like he avoided the question. But i always assumed that Isoc/Wily repaired Zero like Light repaired X but that Zero escaped.
Even so, Zero himself doesn't seem to know who repaired him based upon his dialogue with Dr. Light in X6.

[volt-kid]

Well I think your question has been answered, RaviorStygian. But may I point out that X is unaware of Zero's relation with Wily. He knew that there was something up in X5, but he still didn't have a full understanding. It's only Zero who remains secretive. Not X.

And I don't know if you're new to the above, but that is another old rumor I agree with. The actual statement is that Dr. Wily found a way to live on through machines. And it is rumored (I think originally from Evil Dr. Barby) that Wily has been reincarnated as Serges and Isoc. Not only did they look alike, but they knew information about Zero that no one else knows present. Serges was able to rebuild him, and Isoc helped Gate as well as freezing Zero.

Phi-Zero, on 01 July 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

Is it not obvious that they are the same?

I think he just meant that it was him as Isoc in the time.

[Phi-Zero]

Volt-Kid, on 01 July 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

I think he just meant that it was him as Isoc in the time.

I know: sarcasm mode had been initiated.

[CX111]

I like Wily as a reploid waaaaay better than a human. Not only are reploids better in general, it's just ironic that one who dedicated his life to robots became one in the end.

[RaviorStygian]

If Wily repaired him, why didn't Wily reprogram him the way he was originally designed to be? I'm thinking it was either because he couldn't, or had a change of heart. Isoc's last words almost indicate that Wily didn't seem as evil as he used to be.

[Phi-Zero]

RaviorStygian, on 01 July 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:

If Wily repaired him, why didn't Wily reprogram him the way he was originally designed to be? I'm thinking it was either because he couldn't, or had a change of heart. Isoc's last words almost indicate that Wily didn't seem as evil as he used to be.

My thinking is that Wily isn't sure what's "wrong" with Zero to begin with.
For example, he tried infecting Zero with ridiculous levels of specialized virus in X5 and that didn't work (at least in one ending).
He was probably in the process of figuring that out when Zero escaped.

Again, this is all educated guesswork on my part.

CX111, on 01 July 2012 - 04:25 AM, said:

Not only are reploids better in general,

I resent that comment!

Kidding aside, humans have the advantage of a more sophisticated conscience, not to mention all the subjective experiences of being human.

Only X seems to have both the conscience of a human and the abilities of a Reploid.
It's not until at least the Zero series that X's design has been fully understood and utilized to create Reploids that are equally advanced.

CX111, on 01 July 2012 - 04:25 AM, said:

it's just ironic that one who dedicated his life to robots became one in the end.

As for Wily dedicating his life to robots... it always seemed to me that he really only cared about himself. It's never been clear that he cares robots outside of the ending of MegaMan 10. In most other instances, he just uses them as tools to carry out his bidding rather than treating them like people, for example when he reprograms all of Dr. Light's robots in the first MegaMan game. Even his actions at the end of MM10 could be explained in that (1) he felt like he needed to repay Rock for saving him and (2) there wasn't any point in the world going to pot if he wasn't ruling it as Wily had lost control over the whole Roboenza situation.

I could see Wily viewing his own robots like children though. After all, he gives them all distinct personalities despite there being no point to it.
Maybe Wily just likes playing God?

[RaviorStygian]

Phi-Zero, on 01 July 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

I resent that comment!

Kidding aside, humans have the advantage of a more sophisticated conscience, not to mention all the subjective experiences of being human.

Or the ability to reproduce.

[『ちびまる子ちゃん』正人]

Isoc was probably responsible as Wily's avatar post X5. The chances of Isoc letting his greatest creation rot is pretty much like refusing to tend to your child's scraped knee.

A potential reason as to why Wily didn't alter Zero's mindset was that he had a plan to have Zero become his true self, and he didn't feel like cheating. He possibly wanted to show how advanced Zero was with his various mechanics such as the Sigma Virus, or if possible, Zero just realizing he's supposed to be killing X.

[Terminus]

Plus, Zero was able to defeat High Max, whom X wasn't even able to do that (ignoring the fortress stage where X must use enemy weapons to slowly defeat him). Wily knew that Zero defeated the strongest reploid, which eased Wily's goal. And as far as we know, hasn't attempted to persuade Zero to turn on X after that.
But yeah, Zero tells X that he hid himself when in reality Zero was being repaired till he became conscious. Then escaped. So he lied to X to make him not worry.

[Zan]

Zero: In the short time I’ve been away, people think so much less of me they associate me with a toy like this…
X: …Zero? Zero, you’re alive?
Zero: [sighs] So are you, X, aren’t you?
To begin with, we’re not going to let the likes of Sigma do us in… am I right?
X: I searched… but I couldn’t find anything… no data response… no parts… so…
Zero: Sorry to cause you worry. I lay low until I was fully recovered from the damage.
Meanwhile it looks like this “toy” was stirring up a fuss.
Well, that’s enough sentimental reunion. We’ve got to do something about these Nightmares before it becomes irreversible.
X: If Repliroids get wiped out, the restoration work will be impossible. Then humanity… no, the Earth itself will be in danger.
Zero: Let’s go, X! Let’s crush the Nightmares!
X: Yes. At a time like this, when everyone needs to work together… what they’re doing is unforgivable! Let’s go, Zero!

Dr. Light: Zero... I'm glad to see again.
Zero: ... I will never die. I don't really remember, but when I came to, I
could move... I don't know if the recovery function worked...
Dr. Light: ... The world still needs X and you... ... So you came back to
life, didn't you?

Zero: Wait! Are you the one who saved X?
Dr. Light: ............
Zero: Do you know who saved me?
Dr. Light: I'm sorry... I don't. Yours is a miraculous return...
Zero: If you know anything about me...
Dr. Light: I'm sorry, Zero.

Gate: By the way, have you found what you're looking for? I guess it
doesn't exist in this world...
Isoc: Oh, no. It does. I've seen him... Besides he isn't some low Reploid
that would die in such a trivial battle.
Gate: I'll admit he's as persistent as X. Alive or not, there are many
options.
Isoc: I'll find out for sure.

X: Wait! You can't escape!
Isoc: You ancient piece of junk, it's not over! I'll destroy you myself!
For the time being, farewell!

Isoc: Hee hee hee. Ha ha ha ha ha!
Zero: What makes you laugh?
Isoc: Ah ha ha ha! I can't help it! X was no match for High Max, but you...
Ha hah. I can't stop laughing!
Zero: ... Are you out of your mind? I just destroyed one of your own...
What is so funny? Anyway, you're the last one... I'll crush you now!
Isoc: Nuh ha ha ha ha! ... Did you say something, boy?
Zero: Guhwaaaaah!! Wh... what!? I... I... can't move... Kugh.
Isoc: Zero... I know you inside out... Hmm. Since I found out you're alive,
I can capture you at any time.

??: G... go, Zero! You're the strongest robot!

[Zednanreh]

Phi-Zero, on 01 July 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

Is it not obvious that they are the same?

Volt-Kid, on 01 July 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

I think he just meant that it was him as Isoc in the time.

Actually, I was just joking about Wily as Isoc. Even though I think I get an answer from Zan after I read his post.

Zan, on 01 July 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

??: G... go, Zero! You're the strongest robot!

And it is Wily's Last cameo in whole series?

[Flame]

Wily, yes, so far- unless you count Snipe Anteater's dialogue to Zero in X7 where he talks about hidden data buried within Zero, blue representing the lies that have infested the earth, and red, for those destroyed and sealed away forever.

He also mentions along with this that Zero has forgotten his true mission, to which Zero just shrugs off as his only mission being to defeat Snipe.

the "I REPAIRED MYSELF" was, as Zan has shown- a bad translation of "I laid low until i was fully recovered", which is much more ambiguous, because he doesnt actually say he repaired himself.

[RaviorStygian]

Ah, thank you everyone for elaborating. :) It makes a more sense now.

[Phi-Zero]

Flame, on 01 July 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

Wily, yes, so far- unless you count Snipe Anteater's dialogue to Zero in X7 where he talks about hidden data buried within Zero, blue representing the lies that have infested the earth, and red, for those destroyed and sealed away forever.

He also mentions along with this that Zero has forgotten his true mission, to which Zero just shrugs off as his only mission being to defeat Snipe.

the "I REPAIRED MYSELF" was, as Zan has shown- a bad translation of "I laid low until i was fully recovered", which is much more ambiguous, because he doesnt actually say he repaired himself.

Props to Zan for finding the actual script. :)

It's funny that you mention Snipe Anteator's dialogue! I think it's worth speculating about since it does seem to provide some new information about Zero.

Like the translation of Zero's lines in X6, the lines in X7 might also be poor translations, but what i got out of it is this: (1) BLUE refers to X and "the lies that have infested the earth" are X's beliefs that justice can prevail and that Humans and Reploids can live in peace, a dream that countless others also believe now thanks to X's actions in successfully saving the world many times, and (2) RED refers to Zero and his apparent destruction prior to his encapsulation, a past defeat of Zero that might have had something to do with his encapsulation in the first place. This new information seems to lend credit to the idea of Zero being released sometime during the Wily Wars and being defeated, probably by some combination of Bass, Blues (ProtoMan), and Rock (MegaMan). Note that this doesn't necessarily answer the question of whether any of these Classic characters died in battle with Zero, since defeating him could still have cost them their lives. That still remains to be seen....