[Telos]

P.N., I simply disagree with you because, well, your opinion is flawed - if not plain and outright wrong - on multiple levels. Your stance on the matter is "If you don't like it, don't buy it, otherwise just accept it and be happy you got anything in the first place." It's the exact passive accepting of poor business policies that make it so that multiples of people just shrug and go "Well, nobody else is complaining," and thus nothing gets done to fix the problem at hand.

This is something which, quite frankly, is a massive problem with society today. People seem to be content with sitting back and letting bad policy go uncontested and allow crooked businesses to deal underhandedly with their consumers. It's a good thing there isn't any kind of real, organized political threat in this day and age, because with how everyone seems to be happy to be herded along like sheep, scummy political sharks would walk right into power with no effort whatsoever.

People should complain when they're bein' treated like crap. People shouldn't just smile while being punched in the face and go, "Gee, I sure am glad I got somethin' though!" Passively accepting every shitty thing handed to you is only going to end with you one day walking into a 5-star restaurant and them handing you moldy fishsticks, with you going, "Gosh, this sure is surprising for a $500 meal.. I'm not really satisfied but.. aw, heck, at least they fed me something. Here, take my money!"

[Mac]

Telos, you speak the truth on so much more than just businesses. You speak about the world, governments, life. Which is why 90% of the world are dubbed "sheep". There have been many that have tried to raise awareness but people are just too comfortable. However, if everyone could do something, they would but most cannot/do not have the ability. Which is why I think that hackers and other's like Anonymous are brave and true. Their actions speak louder and I for one thank them for showing companies the boot. After all, if it wasn't for us, the consumer, those companies wouldn't be anywhere near what they are now.

As for the actual focus here, the PSN issue...I find it so very funny that a friend of mine thinks it's just "under maintenance". Sure, it is now, but there is a difference in an outage and just plain maintenance. If your power goes out during a storm, it wasn't because of maintenance. So in short, companies better watch out for the looming storm if they keep up their funny business.

[Phoebe Nocturne]

Well, I simply don't feel abused. Point blank. I'm getting a hell of a lot out of my deal with Sony, and if other people don't feel that way, that's their business. There's a hell of a lot more corruption in the business world, and I've seen relatively very little of it from Sony. Certainly much less than their competition...

Let me be honest, though. End User License Agreements are bullshit 90% of the time. They make sure the business end holds all the cards, and they can't be held liable for pretty much anything the customer doesn't like. Not to mention they make sure they can change anything at any time with no repercussions. But people accept them, because they want the company's product. So they have no right to complain... if they want to do their part to fix things, they'll have to stop giving money to the people offering the product. I suppose that's what this is all about, is getting support on that front, but I don't see the logic in it. And I'm not saying the businesses are right. But they do have the legal high ground, and it's not like circumventing that gives anyone else the moral high ground.

Also, yes. I know the type that just sits back and lets things happen. I don't like it either. But on the other end of the spectrum, there's people who think everything revolves around them and that companies should bend over backwards to serve their needs. And that's the kind of person that usually attacks a company via hacking.

[TheDoctor]

The main problem I can see with Anonymous' actions is that once Sony fixes the problem, all of the "sheep" are going to be like, "PRAISE BE TO SONY! Anonymous must burn!"

Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily agree with Sony suing GeoHotz over this issue, especially when you consider that most PS3 games are so massive, you'd have to be a completely brazen pirate to try and download an iso for them. (either that or have way too much time on your hands for downloading)

[Telos]

..Except, P.N. that Anonymous isn't doing it out of any sort of 'entitlement', and the fact that you ARE one of those 'sit back and accept it' types by your own definition of actions. For you to pretty much ignore everything I said in favor of sticking to the heavily flawed 'if you don't like it, don't spend money on it' doctrine that is the choice catchphrase of sheep today really makes me question just how much you understand what this is all about. You might as well don hipster glasses and cross your arms while saying, "Deal with it."

[Phoebe Nocturne]

Fact is, Telos, nothing is ever going to change as long as people continue to give companies money. That's the root of the whole thing. Nobody here who is talking about bad business practice seems to put any thought into what people in business are actually thinking. They're not thinking about how they can pander to their customers so that everyone's perfectly happy and content. They look at what the majority of people are going to put money into. And in the process, they give the customers some of what they want, which is the good part. They also put effort into preventing anything from undercutting their own profits and agenda, which is where things get dicey.

I don't completely disagree with you and most people here. Some things that companies do in order to protect their own interests are not desirable at all. But every software company makes sure that their customers agree to a long document that defines what they legally can and cannot do with the product. When people break the terms of that agreement, they can't complain about being unjustly punished for it. The unfortunate part is that innocent people tend to get caught in the crossfire while the company takes steps to prevent such things ever happening again.

Now, I personally haven't been affected by any of this. I don't buy games from any of the companies that do their crazy DRM stuff (if I did, it'd probably annoy the hell out of me too). I couldn't have cared less when the Other OS feature was (optionally, if you wanted to continue using PSN) removed from older systems. This certainly isn't my war. But here I am, unable to access PSN like any other Sony consumer. And all I can think about is how this chosen course of actions to try and improve things isn't going to change a damn thing.

The "sheep" outnumber you, plain and simple. Realistically, a hacking effort is only going to cause Sony to beef up security while the masses continue to support them. Honestly, when I focus on not giving the company money if you don't like how they do business, I don't really think even that will help. Because I don't think it's possible to gather enough support among their customers when so many of them follow blindly. Maybe my approach does make me indistinguishable from the "sheep", and maybe I don't understand what people seem to think is so wrong with how Sony does business (I certainly don't seem to be affected by any of it)... but as long as I'm getting what I gave money to Sony for, I don't really care.

Looking back on it, I think there's two types of people in both camps. Either you sit back and accept things as they are, or you see that realistically anything wrong is a symptom of a much bigger problem that will take a lot of effort to overcome. On the other side, either you aim for better business practices and fairer treatment of the consumer base, or you feel you're entitled to more than you've been given. I guess that does put me in the same camp as the "sheep", but at least I'm one of the people in that camp capable of thinking intelligently on the matter. I realize there are problems, I'm just pissed off about this because it's not the way to fix it.

[Flame]

Telos said:

Awesome posts

[Telos]

Dang, I think this thread just gave my rep a steroid boost, hahaha.

[Flame]

If you use all the abilities you were designed with, you should gain more reps. You may even get as high reputation as me! [/Zero]

[default2k]

Man, this is all so childish on their part.

[Flame]

Who, Anon, or Sony?

[TheDoctor]

Flame, on 25 April 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

Who, Anon, or Sony?

Yes.

[Jeff]

TheDoctor, on 25 April 2011 - 07:44 PM, said:

Yes.

o_O

[DEJO]

Only Issue for me at the moment



I CANT RIP PEOPLES LIMBS AND BODY PARTS ONLINE IN MORTAL KOMBAT!!!

*pouts* >:C

[TheDoctor]

Jeff, on 25 April 2011 - 07:53 PM, said:

o_O

Anonymous and Sony are both being childish.

[Telos]

[Flame]

was reading an article on this just now.

Quote

Internet vigilante group Anonymous

I get a nice chuckle whenever I read this.

It amuses me how people think of Anon as an organization.

[Telos]

Yeah, really, especially when they themselves say it every time they go ahead and make public statements of "We are not an organization." I swear, the news just loves to ignore facts in favor of vilifying anyone who opposes the big money holders.

[Flame]

nah, they just dont know or understand the history or meaning behind Anon.

[Telos]

Which is just as pathetic when it's more than a little obvious and easy to look up.