[Terminus]

Quote

Nowhere in that summary does it give an exact timeframe for X's creation; it only establishes cause and effect of a virus and virus countermeasures.

It is why I said it 'seems'. Though given MM10, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that work initiated. Roll was 'ill', Rock was away. Light would have had some time to at least 'keep it secret'.

Quote

Game subtitle "threat from outer space" and the final stage being in space. Also, Evil Energy does not have the properties described there, anybody that things it does hasn't been paying enough attention in 8.

Wily made it up into space, he didn't come from space. So that would be splitting hairs. And I didn't mention Evil Energy because of the Energy portion; mentioned it due to the 'spreading' properties. The final Stage where Rock was infected is the example.

Quote

No, it doesn't.

With that summary statement, it makes it seem like Light was working on future properties for X. In case X needed it. Foreseeing multiple paths and preparing for each. Instead of 'Surviving and assisting X'.

Quote

Nothing of the sort is addressed.

Merely saying it 'can be seen'.

[Zan]

Quote

Wily made it up into space, he didn't come from space.

And how do you think Wily would spread Roboenza all over the Earth? The entire game's focus is the Roboenza; IT is the threat from space. Not the robots, not Wily; the Roboenza.

Quote

And I didn't mention Evil Energy because of the Energy portion; mentioned it due to the 'spreading' properties. The final Stage where Rock was infected is the example.

My point is that Evil Energy does not make robots go violent and rebel. Evil Energy "absorbs the evil in a person's mind and then multiplies."

Quote

With that summary statement, it makes it seem like Light was working on future properties for X. In case X needed it. Foreseeing multiple paths and preparing for each. Instead of 'Surviving and assisting X'.

What makes you think he didn't do both? The armor Right gave in X4 was made from 100 year old materials. He simply prepared a lot in advance; doesn't exclude him from making more later.

[Telos]

Zan, on 27 April 2010 - 11:21 AM, said:

My point is that Evil Energy does not make robots go violent and rebel. Evil Energy "absorbs the evil in a person's mind and then multiplies."

However, Duo also mentions in the ending that Rock has been 'infected' by the Evil Energy, as well as it seems to be suggested that the Evil Energy has affected Wily in some ways due to feeding off all his negativity. It's also EVIL energy, meaning that it no doubt must have some properties to it that affect a person's mind or personality whilst also empowering them. It's a corruptive force, which is why I think Zechs was suggesting it might have some basis for the Roboenza virus.

[Zan]

I think you might want to review 8's ending again. Rock's been "affected" by the Evil Energy, and it is "killing" him. It does not have properties that causes robots to go violent and riot.

[Krazy Monkey]

Didn't Duo remove the Evil Energy from him, though, before it was able to do any damage?

[Terminus]

Quote

And how do you think Wily would spread Roboenza all over the Earth? The entire game's focus is the Roboenza; IT is the threat from space. Not the robots, not Wily; the Roboenza.

If it is a computer Virus, it doesn't need such a place to be 'spread'. Trojans and Worms have no real problem spreading. Unless within that technological world, such robots are interacted with by Radio/C.B/Short/etc frequencies. Had it been a Computer Virus, it would need computer interaction in order to spread, and it wouldn't stop. So such elevation wouldn't really be needed. And in turn would be more costly for Wily and more disastrous if anything befell the structure.

Quote

My point is that Evil Energy does not make robots go violent and rebel. Evil Energy "absorbs the evil in a person's mind and then multiplies."

My point wasn't that the Evil Energy does anything like that. My point is to how it spreads. Destroy an object and it can remove itself to seek the closest potential host. Not it's Energy properties, it's spreading properties. Even without Evil beings to channel such.

It would also suggest the elevation of Wily's station to spread such. Virus being an unseen energy body capable of 'infecting' robots.

Quote

What makes you think he didn't do both? The armor Right gave in X4 was made from 100 year old materials. He simply prepared a lot in advance; doesn't exclude him from making more later.

Only questioning the statement. It would have made more sense had it stated, or emphasized more on Light producing 'hooks' or expandable properties for X. Since he would have no idea what the future holds (hence the seal). Would be difficult to prepare an armor for every unforeseeable circumstance.

Quote

Didn't Duo remove the Evil Energy from him, though, before it was able to do any damage?

Removed it before any serious damage. There was some at least.

[Vile]

Quote

If it is a computer Virus, it doesn't need such a place to be 'spread'. Trojans and Worms have no real problem spreading. Unless within that technological world, such robots are interacted with by Radio/C.B/Short/etc frequencies. Had it been a Computer Virus, it would need computer interaction in order to spread, and it wouldn't stop. So such elevation wouldn't really be needed. And in turn would be more costly for Wily and more disastrous if anything befell the structure.

For that it would take a bit to spread throughout all the robots. A cure could have been made in time if this were the case. By transmitting a virus Wily was able to make a rampage all across the world, as the game implies. Also take note of what his tower looks like in RM10, it has what appears to be a transmitter and it is in fact in space.

[Terminus]

That is why I mentioned the 'frequencies'. I understand it was transmitted. Though transmissions can be interrupted, just like Viruses cured.

[Zan]

Quote

If it is a computer Virus, it doesn't need such a place to be 'spread'. Trojans and Worms have no real problem spreading. Unless within that technological world, such robots are interacted with by Radio/C.B/Short/etc frequencies. Had it been a Computer Virus, it would need computer interaction in order to spread, and it wouldn't stop. So such elevation wouldn't really be needed. And in turn would be more costly for Wily and more disastrous if anything befell the structure.

All I can say is; what are you talking about? What point is there in mentioning trojans, worms, frequencies, whatever? I think you're only needlessly complicating matters. This is the Rockman series; all those concepts have no relevance. You need to think with the terminology the fiction itself proposes, not with some pseudo real world mumbo jumbo.

The Roboenza is the precursor of the Sigma Virus. The Sigma Virus, which was spread from the central computer in X2 and spread all over earth by Sigma's destruction in X5. Both Roboenza and Sigma Virus are "computer viruses" that behave in completely different manners from computer viruses that we know in the real world. What's next, you're going to reason real world computer viruses on Mettaurs attacking your net navi with shock wave creating pickaxes?

Establishing Roboenza is the precursor to Sigma Virus. Or in other words, Sigma Virus is a subspecies of Roboenza. Space is simply the perfect vantage point to spread it over earth in no time and to avoid its origin being detected.

Quote

My point wasn't that the Evil Energy does anything like that. My point is to how it spreads. Destroy an object and it can remove itself to seek the closest potential host. Not it's Energy properties, it's spreading properties. Even without Evil beings to channel such.

Why do you go off tangent so often? We were talking about why Evil Energy does not fit the description on the ZC site. Nowhere was how it spreads of any relevance.

Case in point, the ZC site says it was a virus from space that causes robots to go violent and riot. Only Roboenza fits this reference. Simply because it is exactly that, and has a potential space origin. Evil Energy is not a virus, and does not have such corruptive properties, even if it came from space.

Quote

Would be difficult to prepare an armor for every unforeseeable circumstance.

And who says he had to?
They're just armors, they're NOT specifically tailored to a specific conflict. Right could not foresee the future. He just made whatever he deemed useful.

[Terminus]

Quote

All I can say is; what are you talking about? What point is there in mentioning trojans, worms, frequencies, whatever? I think you're only needlessly complicating matters. This is the Rockman series; all those concepts have no relevance. You need to think with the terminology the fiction itself proposes, not with some pseudo real world mumbo jumbo.

I prefer to think that it isn't just some hokus pokus. Rockman is based on what is non-fictional. And there for, would have at least something similar which is why I used 'examples'. I didn't suggest they were by no means the same. I suggested relevance due to the similar concept based on real happening.

Quote

The Roboenza is the precursor of the Sigma Virus. The Sigma Virus, which was spread from the central computer in X2 and spread all over earth by Sigma's destruction in X5. Both Roboenza and Sigma Virus are "computer viruses" that behave in completely different manners from computer viruses that we know in the real world. What's next, you're going to reason real world computer viruses on Mettaurs attacking your net navi with shock wave creating pickaxes?

Establishing Roboenza is the precursor to Sigma Virus. Or in other words, Sigma Virus is a subspecies of Roboenza. Space is simply the perfect vantage point to spread it over earth in no time and to avoid its origin being detected.

I understand it is the precursor. Kind of hard to not link Virus to Virus and origin of Maker. Them both being Viruses come from the same concept, spread to vulnerable system within set ability. X2 is Computer, which suggests network. X5 is Energy body. 10 is just a virus (apparently), which could be spread of either of those 2 methods or by another, which is why I suggested Frequency. It bypasses Network and Energy Body. Though apparently this is looking into it too much.

Quote

Why do you go off tangent so often? We were talking about why Evil Energy does not fit the description on the ZC site. Nowhere was how it spreads of any relevance.

Case in point, the ZC site says it was a virus from space that causes robots to go violent and riot. Only Roboenza fits this reference. Simply because it is exactly that, and has a potential space origin. Evil Energy is not a virus, and does not have such corruptive properties, even if it came from space.

Not going off tangent. My point is not being seen, nor does it have to do with the ZC site. I by no means was linking Evil Energy to Roboenza. I was merely suggesting a similarity by how it spreads. Nothing more. If anything, it further gives an example of how the Virus spreads. Not being Evil and corruptible, not being Energy, not being Alien or whatever. Only looking at how it spreads as per seen in game. Nothing more.

Quote

And who says he had to?
They're just armors, they're NOT specifically tailored to a specific conflict. Right could not foresee the future. He just made whatever he deemed useful.

I suppose this could be included to justify the same Cannon used by X/Zero in X1. Though only by Light offering it, not by Zero offering it. Thought the chips in X3 always bugged my. Enhancements for enhancements. Seems like the initiation of Light's coming to sentience. Seems, not anything more suggestive than that.

[Flame]

Zechs- I DO hope you can realize that you have a terrible habit of over complicating things... I VERY often get QUITE lost reading your posts and trying to understand your overly complex explanations. Rockman is based on Rockman. real world applies only in a very BASIC manner. Viruses in the Rockman universe are sophisticated enough to be energy bodies that can be "spread" physically over a planet. You cannot really hope to relate something like the floating pink Sigma virus heads in X5 to a trojan virus in a laptop.

Thats like relating Apples and Oranges. Yes they are both "fruits" but they are by NO means the same kind of fruit and cant exactly be compared like you could compare an Orange with say- a tangerine or a lemon.

In the same way, Rockman Viruses and real world computer viruses are both "Viruses" but they cannot be compared or likened they are really NOTHING alike in their natures.

[Zan]

Quote

X2 is Computer, which suggests network. X5 is Energy body.

The virus in X2 is no different from the virus in X5. Remember the wireframe bosses you fought? That was the Sigma Virus in substantiated form.

Quote

10 is just a virus (apparently), which could be spread of either of those 2 methods or by another

Need I remind you the Roboenza actually physically harms a robot?

[Terminus]

Quote

Zechs- I DO hope you can realize that you have a terrible habit of over complicating things... I VERY often get QUITE lost reading your posts and trying to understand your overly complex explanations. Rockman is based on Rockman. real world applies only in a very BASIC manner. Viruses in the Rockman universe are sophisticated enough to be energy bodies that can be "spread" physically over a planet. You cannot really hope to relate something like the floating pink Sigma virus heads in X5 to a trojan virus in a laptop.

I'm aware of such. Prefer to understand the mechanics at work, than the over-all machine. And no, I wouldn't suggest such an example.

Quote

Thats like relating Apples and Oranges. Yes they are both "fruits" but they are by NO means the same kind of fruit and cant exactly be compared like you could compare an Orange with say- a tangerine or a lemon.

'Fruit' grown is all Fruit. Merely different types. Different 'effect' by different 'fruit'.

Quote

The virus in X2 is no different from the virus in X5. Remember the wireframe bosses you fought? That was the Sigma Virus in substantiated form.

I understand that. Also saw that Hologram Saber and that Upgradeable Mechaniloid (security entity in Magna Centipede's stage, forgot name...) as similar effect. Not same of course. I was just looking at the 'Computer' as projecting more than seen. Same with the X3 Computer, both times we say the Wire Frame Sigma's (looking too much, I am aware).

Quote

Need I remind you the Roboenza actually physically harms a robot?

No need to, that point is quite obvious. A 'Virus' isn't going to simply 'crash' a robot, or anything of that like instantly. So it has to have apparent symptoms.

[Zan]

Quote

Prefer to understand the mechanics at work, than the over-all machine.

Quote

'Fruit' grown is all Fruit. Merely different types. Different 'effect' by different 'fruit'.

Whatever happened to complete sentences? And somehow or other you made even that sound convoluted.

Quote

I understand that.

I don't think you do. The "wire frame" bosses are Sigma Virus in "substantiated/materialized" form. Normally a virus can only be harmed by a program, but in this state conventional weapons can harm it. This is the same thing we witnessed with the Nightmare Virus as well as the Crea and Prea battle, each Sigma Virus derivatives.

The substantiation of a program life form is only possible when its body is made of energy. In other words, the concept was around from the very beginning. There's no difference between the virus in X2 and X5. Which is further emphasized by the Sigma Virus being transmitted over cyberspace in X7.

Quote

A 'Virus' isn't going to simply 'crash' a robot, or anything of that like instantly.

And as it physically can harm a robot, Roboenza has to be much more than just a program. Like its subspecies, the Sigma Virus, it too has a body of energy.

[Terminus]

Quote

Whatever happened to complete sentences? And somehow or other you made even that sound convoluted.

As in a typing mistake by period instead of comma? Alright then. So take mistakes and typo's as something other than intentional.

Quote

I don't think you do. The "wire frame" bosses are Sigma Virus in "substantiated/materialized" form. Normally a virus can only be harmed by a program, but in this state conventional weapons can harm it. This is the same thing we witnessed with the Nightmare Virus as well as the Crea and Prea battle, each Sigma Virus derivatives.

The substantiation of a program life form is only possible when its body is made of energy. In other words, the concept was around from the very beginning. There's no difference between the virus in X2 and X5. Which is further emphasized by the Sigma Virus being transmitted over cyberspace in X7.

So me not contesting what was just stated must mean I 'do not understand'? Right. So shall we reiterate what was already reiterated?

I never contested Wire Frames Sigma's as not being 'Virus', not once. As I said, I 'Understand' that they are manifest within a recognizable physical manor. Or they 'would not have been present'. Kind of hard to miss, don't you think? Though I'm not sure that any conventional Weapon can harm the Virus.

And of course, Baby Elf's come from Mother Elf, whom was derived from Sigma Virus samples. Their similarity to the Sigma Virus in the X series has been discussed before.

I wouldn't have suggested a difference between X2 and X5. Mere game limitations to present the same concept. Virus physical manifestation is also present on Final X8 Sigma.

Quote

And as it physically can harm a robot, Roboenza has to be much more than just a program. Like its subspecies, the Sigma Virus, it too has a body of energy.

I agreed to that way back in this discussion:

Quote

It would also suggest the elevation of Wily's station to spread such. Virus being an unseen energy body capable of 'infecting' robots.

[Zan]

Quote

As in a typing mistake by period instead of comma?

More like you cutting out key words from sentences such as "I", "rather", "they are" and so on. Which very much muddles what you're trying to say, and what you're trying to imply with it.

Quote

So me not contesting what was just stated must mean I 'do not understand'? Right. So shall we reiterate what was already reiterated?

To add to the aforementioned, you also have an uncanny ability of saying two opposite things within the same post. When you're not doing both at the same time, it's ever so unclear when you agree with someone, or when you're defending your own points vehemently.

And due to all of that, I get the strange feeling that you might be trying to say the same thing, but it certainly isn't getting translated to us properly.

So, since I'm now totally and utterly confused as to who's trying to say what, I'll just skip the overall implication of your post, and focus on some factoids I feel might be nice to address...

Quote

Though I'm not sure that any conventional Weapon can harm the Virus.

Well obviously shooting it with a bow and arrow would do you little good.

Quote

And of course, Baby Elf's come from Mother Elf, whom was derived from Sigma Virus samples. Their similarity to the Sigma Virus in the X series has been discussed before.

As of the information on the ZC site, the Sigma Virus is officially a Cyber Elf.

Quote

Virus physical manifestation is also present on Final X8 Sigma.

Whilst possible, this is actually completely conjecture.

[Terminus]

Quote

Well obviously shooting it with a bow and arrow would do you little good.

Wasn't the point I was making. More like a standard Reploid weapon, or something generically produced. Instead we see Key characters (X/Zero) doing damage to the Virus Body.

Quote

As of the information on the ZC site, the Sigma Virus is officially a Cyber Elf.

I was waiting for something like that to come out. The Virus plays too much of a role with the later scientists whom produce Mother Elf to not become considered such. Fight fire with fire seemingly.

Quote

Whilst possible, this is actually completely conjecture.

But of course. Not going to be stated that the body was held together due to Virus properties. Though visually, it can be takes that that is exactly what is going on. Obvious Gravity is present there, so it wouldn't just be floating together.

[Flame]

We dont know WHAT the green energy or the red core are. We can only guess. All we know is that its his strongest body thus far.

[Zan]

Quote

Wasn't the point I was making. More like a standard Reploid weapon, or something generically produced. Instead we see Key characters (X/Zero) doing damage to the Virus Body.

The quote from the game is this:

On the other hand, we don't need a special
vaccine to damage it, since the energy is so strong. Deleting them may be
easier than Sigma...

To explain why you need to equip an anti-virus for the Sigma Virus in X5, but this not being needed for the Sigma Virus in X2 and for the Nightmare in X6.

Quote

I was waiting for something like that to come out. The Virus plays too much of a role with the later scientists whom produce Mother Elf to not become considered such. Fight fire with fire seemingly.

Zero
"If an enemy appears in front of me.... I will destroy it..."
Previously a major player in the Irregular Wars, the legendary red repliroid who was praised as a great hero.
He was discovered and awoken from a 100 year slumber by Ciel.
Because of the long years he spent out of commission, he suffered some memory loss when he woke up, and even his abilities needed time to reawaken.
In the closing period of the Elf Wars, he crushed Omega who held the world in a grip of fear, along with his master Vile's cruel ambition, but this would ultimately lead the way to a new battle.

Ciel
"To me, you are Zero."
A human young lady who performed repliroid research in Neo Arcadia.
She created Copy X to help compensate for X's disappearance, but she had misgivings when reploids started being disposed of due to the energy shortage and she left Neo Arcadia.
After that she organized the Resistance to protect the repliroids, and meanwhile worked tirelessly every day to develop a new energy source to help end the conflict.
The visor that Ciel uses were kept from her time in Neo Acadia studying Cyber Elves, allowing her to see and come in contact with Cyber Elves despite her being a human.

Cyber Elf
A computer life form generally unknown to humans.
Commonly referring to a repliroid's will, consciousness, personality, etc.
While many scientists continue to study the repliroid mind for answers, the current concept is generally acknowledged as not a program itself but the "volition of a bodiless life form."
Though cyber elves are invisible, repliroids are able to see (or sense) them.
In the field of research focused on the activity of the mysterious computer virus the "Sigma Virus" on the repliroid thought program, it was proven that the virus possessed an effect of "volition."
That "volition" became known as a Cyber Elf, and additionally any such volition that had the ability to influence things in a similar manner (Sigma Virus included) became designated Cyber Elves.
The study resulted in reached the level where it became possible to strengthen a repliroid by means of a cyber elf.


Alouette
A skilled Cyber Elf caregiver, she helps the cyber elves Zero obtains to grow to their potential.
She named Crea and Prea herself.

Cerveau
A repliroid who provides Zero with technical support by developing all sorts of new weapons and chips.
He always tries to look after Ciel and Zero.

Hirondelle
A quick-witted traveler residing at the Resistance Base, he has lots of info on various locations he's visited.
As a hobby he also writes poetry.

Resistance Companions
A group of repliroids who were condemned to be disposed of as irregulars, but were rescued by Ciel.
Even though they're trying to live on short rations of energy, they extend their help to all repliroids facing similar circumstances.

"The Legendary Blue Messiah" X
The legendary blue repliroid and ruler of Neo Arcadia who symbolizes "infinite potential" and a "purveyor of justice" for all.
Though he had done so for the sake of peace, he often worried over having to destroy his fellow repliroids during the long confrontations of the "Irregular Wars", a condition which went mostly unchanged even after Zero went to sleep following the Nightmare Incident.
In the closing period of the Irregular Wars (later referred to as the Elf Wars), X cooperated with Zero who had acquired a copy body, to capture the Dark Elf, and arranged to use his anti-virus countermeasure to seal her within his own body.
When he sealed the Dark Elf, the shock forced X's soul from his body and split it into 5 cyber elves.
Eventually, 4 of these souls were incorporated into the Shitennou of Neo Arcadia, while one continued to wander the earth.

Neo Arcadia
Concerned over the Elf Wars, X formed the "Neo Arcadia" organization for the sake of providing protection for the humans.
X himself was a great man who rather than exercising control by using the Dark Elf, he successfully used his "reputation" to invoke order.
The remnants of mankind who survived the Elf Wars were able to continue living within an enormous dome, but outside the dome the conditions were unsuitable to support human life.
Nowadays Neo Arcadia is the name of the government, although the life-sustaining dome itself is commonly referred to as Neo Arcadia as well.
Humans representatives consult with repliroids to carry out Neo Arcadian policy.

[Mirby]

I read all these posts and all I have to say is this: don't you love having the same arguments on two different forums, Zan?